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  1. #21
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    I would have done more HA and GvG if there was a way to get into games fast. I hate wasting time LFG. That said, I really liked JQ, FA, even RA. WvW and structured PvP are good for me that way. I like the idea of playing a hybrid there, especially one that can swap between healing and damage.

    I realize the guardian doesn't have good ranged options at the time, and I hope they fix that. What I didn't like about the staff was skill 2, which is slow moving long-range that you can't even spam. I really liked skill 1 but it is medium-range at best, I'd rather use melee instead. Scepter might be slow, but at least it's spammable. Plus the scepter can be combo'ed with any offhand.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I would have done more HA and GvG if there was a way to get into games fast. I hate wasting time LFG. That said, I really liked JQ, FA, even RA. WvW and structured PvP are good for me that way. I like the idea of playing a hybrid there, especially one that can swap between healing and damage.

    I realize the guardian doesn't have good ranged options at the time, and I hope they fix that. What I didn't like about the staff was skill 2, which is slow moving long-range that you can't even spam. I really liked skill 1 but it is medium-range at best, I'd rather use melee instead. Scepter might be slow, but at least it's spammable. Plus the scepter can be combo'ed with any offhand.
    I'm in a similar position, back in the Factions beta weekends Alliance battles didn't require a team, you could just click "Enter battle" and be put into a team of 12 which was HIGHLY appealing since I didn't have to worry about making a team, I could just click, go in and have fun, sadly upon release it was changed so you need to make a team of 4, and even then when in the arena you can only see the hp bars of your 3 team mates, while in beta it was a Urgoz / Deep style party panel of 12, I would have alliance battled a lot more if they had kept the old system so WvW is amazing for me, I've yet to try sPvP though.

    And the range was the biggest complaint I saw in the official Guardian forums, can't remember which dev mentioned it but they said they were looking at fixing that, making the scepter projectiles faster and actually fly with its range extended to 1200 would make it perfect, but others want the Guardian to gain a longbow as a weapon choice.

    Imo they should just rework the Spirit Bow into a summonable bow weapon, all the spirit weapons bar that one are weapons the Guardian can actually use, so remove the Spirit bow and make it a summonable bow that spawns a second one on the ground for allies (Similar to the eles ice bows, but focusing on small AOE damage and condition removal or healing rather than tons of damage) and add a Spirit mace weapon to handle support in place of the current bow.

    But I find it funny how our views differ here, you were fine with the Scepter spam skill while I wasn't, and I'm fine with the Staff #2 skill and your not.

    I'm actually fine with the #2 Staff skill because it's more tactical than anything imo, I too hated at first how it was slow moving, but after the beta ended and I had time to think, I realized it's really more of a AOE heal than a damage dealer, I think the key with it is to target an enemy surrounded by your allies and fire it, if the enemy moves then rather than let it go to waste you can activate it and give your allies a nice heal.

    I admit though I wouldn't mind it being reworked to be faster and just automatically do a combined "Heal / damage" on contact of either ally or foe, but obviously the numbers or recharge would have to be adjusted to avoid exploiting that)

    As for staff skill #1 I absolutely loved it as it was, but I'd gladly accept a range buff from 600 to 900 or even 1200, though 1200 might be a wee bit overpowered, especially since it fires in a cone.

    Though I would change line of warding back to how it was before and make it ground target able again, I remember in the other Guardian thread you mentioned it requiring a trait to become Ground target able, but I cannot find any trait regarding that besides the concentrations one, while making it at your location can work, I also found out a few times in beta that if you have highlighted an enemy while trying to use it, your character will follow the direction of that NPC / Player, so quite a few times I ended up with a line going the same way as doorways or bridges because my character had moved during casting, which ended up not being horribly useful.

    While I was able to use it to great effect, I think a skill with that long a recharge and that level of usefulness should be able to be freely placed, it would also help rework the staff into an actual long range support weapon, and would allow you to support you team and control things a lot better.

    Also I understand what you mean about rather using Melee, but the beauty of the staff spam skill is that it's got a wide AOE arc, so while it might not be amazing against a single target, it's a beauty of a weapon for dealing a decent amount of damage to a small cluster of enemy players / NPC's, it's a good pressure skill when used at the right time, I managed to put 3 players at once into downed mode simply because they were huddled together and not looking behind them, so I just ended up putting additional pressure on them with it while they focused on my allies in front of them.

    And the thing I hate about the scepter right now isn't just the speed, but its the fact it's easily dodged without even having to use the dodge key.

    When I tried it in PvE it's fine, since enemy's tend to run in a line to you, in WvW however I had many an occasion when enemy players just strafed to the side and easily avoided each ball without even trying to dodge, that's its main flaw

    The staff #2 skill I can understand to a degree since it has SOME tactical use behind it (Mainly an AOE heal on detonation and damage on contact) but the scepter spam skill has no additional benefits beyond damage (Besides burning but even that requires the orb to actually hit the target), so if its to slow to hit anything then it's completely useless as a skill, it needs to become an actual projectile imo (And not crawl across the floor) aswell as have its speed buffed to the speed other professions projectiles fly at.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    WvW is amazing for me, I've yet to try sPvP though.
    sPvP has a mode similar to random arena, or you can team up and play similar to team arena. Except each map has different objectives. It's quite fun actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    making the scepter projectiles faster and actually fly with its range extended to 1200 would make it perfect, but others want the Guardian to gain a longbow as a weapon choice.
    I would so drool over a longbow for guardian, but I don't think it will happen. Increasing speed and range on scepter and possibly skill 2 of staff would be pretty good though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    Imo they should just rework the Spirit Bow into a summonable bow weapon
    Hmmm, not sure about that, I'd rather a decent dedicated long-range weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    But I find it funny how our views differ here, you were fine with the Scepter spam skill while I wasn't, and I'm fine with the Staff #2 skill and your not.
    I consider neither skill particularly good. It's the choice between bad and worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    I realized it's really more of a AOE heal than a damage dealer
    Makes sense. I might appreciate it better in that light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    As for staff skill #1 I absolutely loved it as it was
    Agreed. Buffing the range would make it OP. Which is why I suggested staff #2 skill to be reworked, and I like your suggestion of making it an AoE damage+heal. Maybe keep the heal lower so you can spam it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsukasa Kamiya View Post
    Though I would change line of warding back to how it was before and make it ground target able again
    I could not find the trait either, perhaps they removed it? Too OP?
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    sPvP has a mode similar to random arena, or you can team up and play similar to team arena. Except each map has different objectives. It's quite fun actually.
    I really need to try it I admit, especially while everyone is still relatively new and while the game is still evolving mechanics and balance wise, just some bad experiences in PvP in GW1 when I played back in 05 really put me off PvP in general, but I really should give it a go, thanks for the recommendation!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I would so drool over a longbow for guardian, but I don't think it will happen. Increasing speed and range on scepter and possibly skill 2 of staff would be pretty good though.
    Actually about that, i too would love a longbow for the Guardian, i think it would fit their overall design and theme rather well (And look frickin cool shooting Guardian force arrows! )

    But looking at the PC gamer BWE2 build preview i noticed while the guy was playing a Necro, a Guardian player came and assisted him in a DE, and that Guardian was wielding a scepter, where the orbs of wrath actually fly like projectiles now.

    http://it.twitch.tv/pcgamer/b/320044809

    Skip to 1:43:50 and keep your eye on the bottom right, you see a flurry of orbs of wrath come flying past at the boss, so it looks like Arenanet listened and buffed the range of the scepter #1 skill and made them actual projectiles now.

    They still seem on the slow side but that could be the low frame rate of the video, we will get a better look at it this coming Friday, but it seems like the Scepter is now a long range option for the Guardian which I'm ecstatic about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Hmmm, not sure about that, I'd rather a decent dedicated long-range weapon.
    I'd still love the Longbow or summon able bow personally, the summon would be a nice utility, but as above it looks like the scepter is the long range option now for Guardians, a unique option could even be to have the spirit weapons summon as normal, but clicking on them turns them into environmental weapons, so you could use the bow as a summon as it is now, but can also be an Enviro weapon when clicked on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I consider neither skill particularly good. It's the choice between bad and worse.
    As above Orb of Wrath seems to be really buffed now, i just hope it has a healing or condition removal aspect to it too similar to the Trident #1, but I'm happy since it's now got longer range and actually flies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Makes sense. I might appreciate it better in that light.
    I hated it at first while actually playing, but after taking a step back and looking at it, I'm all but certain that's how Anet intended it to be used, small damage if it hits, big heal when detonated if it misses, so it imo is more support based, but we will see this coming Friday if they reworked that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Agreed. Buffing the range would make it OP. Which is why I suggested staff #2 skill to be reworked, and I like your suggestion of making it an AoE damage+heal. Maybe keep the heal lower so you can spam it?
    Thanks for that. , But i think they need to keep the healing and damage around the same value, if it does high damage and low heals but is spammable, it might become to overpowered damage wise, and vica versa.

    I think it just needs a reasonable cool down (About 5 seconds imo) for a heal that helps but isn't gonna save someone who's not dodging, and enough damage to be a threat, but not a "Couple of hits and your out" kinda damage, just enough to top people up heal wise yet enough damage to let foes know your a threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I could not find the trait either, perhaps they removed it? Too OP?
    I'd be happy with the staff 100% if it wasn't for the line of warding, it's the best skill on the staff imo but it just feels so restrictive now that it can only be placed in front of you, make that ground target able again and I'd be happy with the staff as it is, i can work with the other skills but imo since the Guardian is pretty much advertised as the support and control profession, it doesn't make sense to make the L.O.W only place able in front of you, when for example a Mesmer with a focus can lay a Temporal Curtain (Basically a line) that's ground target able down easily within it's 900 radius.

    Considering L.O.W's recharge and duration, I don't think it would be game breaking to let L.O.W be ground target able again without a trait, it's a valuable skill that when used right, can really help turn a battle around or keep people alive unless you or someone else could think of a reason why it would be very overpowered, be interesting to see if it's been changed at all for BWE2, kinda excited to see the changes now.

    - Tsukasa

  5. #25
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    I'm excited to see how the guardian will be modified for WvW. It's going to be the profession that makes me learn to play a lot... Melee, positional protting, support... oh my!
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  6. #26
    Alaris, liked the little run down you did on the Guardian couple days back.

    After this weekend I came to the decision the best way to run a Guardian in WvW is a switch hitter, Great Sword and Wand/Shield. Though I still feel melee is under powered since everyone and their mangy inbred dog kites while firing away with ranged weapons, the Great Sword provides a great AoE in Whirling Wrath, interesting punishment with Symbol of Wrath, and Binding Blade to keep the kite kiddies in close. Wand/Shield is the other half of the kite kiddy solution, ranged attacks but with another snare setting up a weapon swap to get back in close to finish them. The Shield also gives all the great defensive skills, Shield of Absorption being my favorite since it provides some relief from the ever present Arrow Carts in any siege.

    Healing Breeze, by far the best Heal for team play. "Hold the Line!" is a must have. Three to six Guardians auto casting it at a siege or a large battle suck up a lot of damage and provides a little healing. Been debating Sanctuary versus Wall of Reflection, bonus healing versus a quicker recycle, I'm leaning on Wall of Reflection. Purging Flames get the nod despite the long recycle just for the massive clean up it does.

    Haven't got an elite yet, but I leaning towards Tome of Courage. Makes it easy to be back line healbot.

  7. #27
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    Thanks.

    The rundown I made though was for support, and this weekend I played my guardian mainly as dps.

    I had greatsword + wand/shield like you, and that worked great. I found that whirling wrath worked best against foes that were coming in for melee combat, especially if I managed to make them waste their big skills. I had some support skills, but I was too clumsy to use them well... I did some PvE as well and support was easier to learn there. I'm definitely liking the guardian despite not being a melee fanatic.
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  8. #28
    I found Whirling Wrath was great for taking out Dolyaks. Start at the head and just start spinning, 2 or 3 of them with loads of normal attacks. It was also fun to use Leap of Faith to suicide dive into a large group and then hit Symbol of Wrath into Whirling Wrath. You know you're dead, but you can tenderize several enemies and might get a kill or two.

    Spent some time explaining to some friends who used warriors how important a War Horn as part of weapon swap is for any decent sized group just for "Charge!". "Retreat!" isn't very efficient as a long term speed buff, even with points dumped into Honor (I think that was trait) it doesn't last that long. It's just not worth an utility slot from a Guardian.

  9. #29
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    I liked Retreat. Perhaps not the best movement buff for a group that is moving around (Warrior's Charge! is superior for sure), but as a panic button for kiting eager enemies, it saved my hide quite a few times.

    See, I too, rather enjoy Leap of Faith-ing into mobs. It looks brutal and it blinds! A couple of times in WvW, I would leap at someone, and suddenly his friends would show up! Retreat allowed me to alternate between kiting them, dodging and occasionally unleashing bursts of damage to force them to drop back and heal up a bit. I kept this going until backup arrived - the aegis and swiftness combined kept me just out of pummelling range of the enemy. It was fun.

    Less keen on using Retreat! in sPvP - Wall of Reflection looks cool and works well, but most people see it and move to avoid it. Purging Flames is ace and I greatly enjoyed taking. Sanctuary is another good one. I saw a lot of Guardians with the Hammer summon - it seems okay for PvE, but it's actually really annoying in PvP as it knocks your targets around at the wrong times unless you command it.

    Oh, another things about WvW - I was running melee in both weapon slots, and this works fine to capping smaller camps and dealing with people out in the open - but I would seriously suggest bringing a Staff, and swapping to it as you rock up to a bigger Keep or similar building where people are going to be attacking you from the walls. Just so long as you do it before engaging, you won't have to pull away during the heat of the fight to swap your weapon. You can occasionally hit people up on the walls, and if not, you don't have to get involved in the particle storm upfront, and can provide some healing/condition control for the people beating on the gate or wall. This means basically taking 3 weapon sets - might be a bit of a pain the behind to remember to do it, but worth it imo.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddah View Post
    use Leap of Faith to suicide dive into a large group and then hit Symbol of Wrath into Whirling Wrath. You know you're dead, but you can tenderize several enemies and might get a kill or two.
    lol loved that...

    I found that often enough, I tenderized them enough so that while downed I could finish one and rally. It was lots of fun. Great for less dangerous mobs as you can actually kill them off in one go.
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