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03-06-2012, 19:39 #61
03-06-2012, 19:50 #62
0If anything, the old system was more confusing with the power tiers, because people felt like they "should" save up their points to buy an expensive skill (since that's what video games teach people to do: wait and save and buy something expensive, because it'll be a better value than buying something cheap)
Also keep in mind that Prophecies only let us unlock skills when the game was ready for us to have them. The difference is that it was done by vendors withholding them.
03-06-2012, 22:43 #63
I think it's smart. By having tiers, it enchorages you to try a variety of skills early on, and not just jump right to and expensive skill. The real beauty of the utility skills is how they work together. If you're just saving for big skills, you won't have as much time to experiment with different combinations of skills, and might not be able to afford as many skills as you have utility space for. The system seems to be designed for two things. One, to teach you how to play the game affectively (aka easy to learn, hard to master) and two, to build diversity. If everyone can unlock the "best" skills right away, that's all anyone will do. Everyone will have the same builds, and then we'll have a system like there currently is in GW where the group will demand you play this build for this content. By forcing you to try new skills, you will find what works for you, and your play style. And really, how is this any different from what other games do (Diablo3, DragonAge, etc.); no one is raging about that. In the end, I don't see how it really matters, by the time you reach level 80, you will have unlocked enough skill points to unlock every skill you want. So you can't access them all right away, big deal, welcome to life.
03-06-2012, 23:29 #64
03-06-2012, 23:42 #65
What valid reasons do you have for hating it? Did you even read Skyy High's post? Are you against having more viable choices? Or do you just want one superpowered build?
Seeing that you used to nerdgasm over necromancers using blood magic, I'm going to assume that you're not a fan of abusing overpowered builds though..
04-06-2012, 00:10 #66
Im glad I don't have a guru account. When I first saw the trait system I thought it would be cool to limit the lines even further. Originally I thought you should be allowed one grandmaster line and then up to two Master lines. I don't think it would have gone well!
Honestly Im not really sure what the fuss is over the skills part. You still get to unlock the skills you want, it might just take longer and some people may use skills they would never have tried before. Thats not including the ability to test skills in the mists first as well.
04-06-2012, 00:31 #67
GWOnline Site Pal Achievements:
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As for the trait system, I guess it really depends on the details. restriction is usually added so that the builds that would be OP cannot be made, so you end up with more choices of viable builds and no clearly OP builds. In theory. But even ANet messed it up before, letting people make OP builds that were not meant to be, and restricting viable builds for apparently no good reason. Like I've often said though, they are overall pretty good at balancing, aside from a few exceptions.
I'll further add that most traits tend to be linked to skills and utility, rather than damage... to me most traits don't fit the min-max mentality very well.
04-06-2012, 15:35 #68
I'm using this article as a reference: Powers Requirements
And this one: Level Progression
So, from what I can gather, you start off by picking a particular Power Set (actually it looks like, if you're a Freemium player, you pick an Archetype and then all of the other choices are made for you, but let's assume you're a paying customer with choices to be made) with an Energy Builder and a Tier 0 power. You level up to lvl6, at which point you can pick one more Power. You unlock another Power at level 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 23, 26, 29, 32, 35, and 38. I'm ignoring the Advantage points, which let you buff your Powers, and other stuff like Travel Powers.
So, that's it, 1 Energy Builder and 13 Powers total. The Powers exist in Tiers, 0 through 4. Some more information I gathered about Powers and Tiers:
* Tiers are level-unlocked, with higher level requirements if you don't have all of your powers in the same set.
* There are 5 tiers of Powers, with each Tier requiring a higher investment to pick a Power from that Tier (except for Tier 4, which just requires you to be max level). To use a Fire Power of Tier 3, you need to use 5 Fire Powers of Tier 2 or less and be a level 17, or 6 Powers of Tier 2 or less from any Set and be a level 26.
Ok. Do you see the differences yet? I'm sure you don't, so I'm going to spell them out:
1) GW2 only uses skill tiers for its utilities and elites. That means that 11 out of the 15 skills on your bar are not linked to tiers in any way (I'm counting alternate weapon sets because those are part of your build). You can unlock weapon skills quickly without paying anything, and you can swap them around freely out of combat. Contrast that with the CO system, where you seem to be stuck with 13 skills total (not counting your Block Power or Travel Powers), and those skills unlock slowly over the course of the entire leveling process. In other words: the tier system restricts your progress in CO and controls pretty much every skill on your bar, whereas it controls less than a third of your bar in GW2, and those aren't even necessarily the most important skills you have.
2) CO Powers are both tier-locked and level-locked. If you travel the world finding the easiest skill point challenges in every starting area, you can amass a ton of skill points very quickly, and you're never told to go grind some XP before you can buy a particular utility. Oh, you can't bring more than X number of utilities at once until you hit a certain level, but that system was in the game already and I didn't hear any complaints, so I'm assuming it's not a problem. Point is, the only thing limiting your progression along the utility skill tiers in GW2 is the number of skill point challenges you complete, not your level. That strikes me as an enormous difference.
3) CO Powers are in trees. If you want to use one Power from Electricity along with your predominantly Fire Power Set, you're going to have to wait longer to get it than if you went full Electricity. There is absolutely no analogue to this in GW2. A tier 3 Corruption utility isn't going to cost more because I didn't get the tier 1 and tier 2 Corruptions. Again, the only restriction here is the tiers themselves; there are no "lines" that you have to follow, there are no level requirements that you have to meet. Why? Because the skill tiers are doing exactly the same job that the differing skill point costs were supposed to do in the last BWE: encourage you to pick a bunch of broadly-useful skills early on to experiment with, and save the niche skills for later when they'll be more useful. The old system did a bad job of that. This system does it better.
TL;DR: The only thing that GW2's tier system shares in common with CO's is that they both have things called "tiers" that require an investment of something to sequentially unlock them. In terms of how you unlock skills, what skills you're incentivized to unlock, and how the system impacts your gameplay, the two systems are nothing alike.
Last edited by Skyy High; 04-06-2012 at 15:38.