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Thread: Combat in melee

  1. #11
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    I think his comments are on-point, depending on your weapon.

    I found Hammer Warrior exceptional in melee combat. There was a lot of control: Between Staggering Blow, Backbreaker, and Earth Shaker, I could keep a foe interrupted / stunned for quite a bit of time. Hammer Shock keeps them in melee range if they're trying to escape. If they get out of range, I can switch to Rifle until my jump in hammer skills are recharged.

    I found my Ranger pretty strong with Axe / Dagger, which involved him rolling around and dodging a lot of stuff.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorani View Post
    I am not sure I understand you correctly, but main hand dagger on the Elementalist has very short range, which I would consider melee range on all attunements. Cone shaped attack patterns like Dragon's Claw will only hit three times (with all three projectiles) when you are very close to the foe.
    Dagger skills have a lot more base damage than e.g. Staff skills: e.g. a full hit of Dragon's Claw 3x126, while Fireball does 314 (which can also be dodged if you chose to); Drake's Breath almost 4k (with burning), while Lava Font does only 296 each second (last for 4 seconds, but not even the AI stands in that for the whole time).

    That's not what I mean't. While it's true that daggers are the melee option for the elementalist, because you can't swap weapons you're basically stuck with whatever "role" your weapon is. In the case of the dagger, it would be melee. Due to that, Anet had to switch the usual "Melee gets more control then ranged" mentality to "earth/air gets more control while fire gets more damage and water gets support". Because without it, elementalist can't properly adapt to the situation with only 1 weapon set.

    The engineer follows the standard rule because of the slottable kits. If you equip a Tool Kit (What I like to call the "Wrenchie One") you can spread cripple in an area, pull enemies to you and, if traited, apply a 100% upkeep cripple with auto-attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorudo
    i have to disagree with melee having more control, you have to be in melee range to do anything and when enemies keep ignoring you this can be a major problem.
    ranged however actually have more control, they can play around with enemies while attacking from range.
    the necro for instance can keep the enemy at bay while crippling the enemy or manipulate the enemy to attack the minions while exploding them, they have more control then a warrior i would say.
    the only time when i felt like i have control with a warrior is when i used the great sword, every other felt so chunky that i decided to completely ignore them.
    If the enemies ignore you in melee, then you just achieved Paradise as a melee. Also known as, do whatever the **** you want and watch things die.

    Melee does have more control then ranged. You don't know what control is or else you wouldn't say that. Greatsword on the warrior has almost no control. You have 1 skill that inflicts cripple while the rest are skills that give you momentary speed boosts. That's self-support, not control. The reason to choose greatsword is for the damage.

    Hammer is the choice for warriors in the control department. You have weakness, aoe cripple, a moderate stun, which is aoe AND a charge to boot, and a knockback, also aoe.
    Last edited by Nemeon Lion; 06-08-2012 at 14:48.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorudo View Post
    i have to disagree with melee having more control, you have to be in melee range to do anything and when enemies keep ignoring you this can be a major problem.
    ranged however actually have more control, they can play around with enemies while attacking from range.
    the necro for instance can keep the enemy at bay while crippling the enemy or manipulate the enemy to attack the minions while exploding them, they have more control then a warrior i would say.
    the only time when i felt like i have control with a warrior is when i used the great sword, every other felt so chunky that i decided to completely ignore them.
    You know, a Dev has flat out said melee has more control. As a fact. Its not a matter of opinion. They built the game, they know the rules.

    Secondly, you seem to have no idea what control is or why its needed.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus.

  4. #14
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    if i can't even get any proper control on my self, how can you expect me to do any control on enemies....
    ranged profs especially casters are the master of control, when enemies run around while running after it isn't my idea of control, that's wasting time.

    ps. what do you have to support your so called fact, a word can only go's so far.
    it's alive but cannot be living, it's dead but lives a mortal life.

    sorudo.9054

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    @sorudo: control refers not to how easy it is to control your character, but actually to skills that are specifically made to give you the ability to control what the opponent does. Control includes skills like knockdown, stun, and pull/push, as well as being in the face of opponents so they either attack you or suffer major dps.

    As ranged, you often have cripple, but that's about it. Melee has a lot more stopping power for example.
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  6. #16
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    Maybe you should call Jon Peters and tell him he's full of crap. You've played the game for 7 days, clearly you know better than the arenanet team.

    Also source: http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/jon-...ranged-combat/

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus.

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    Sorudo lol

    How are you arguing with a dev right now?

    Also, control isn't really the same as kiting...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorudo View Post
    if i can't even get any proper control on my self, how can you expect me to do any control on enemies....
    ranged profs especially casters are the master of control, when enemies run around while running after it isn't my idea of control, that's wasting time.

    ps. what do you have to support your so called fact, a word can only go's so far.
    Yeah, I bet you can't.

    As I said before, you don't know what control is.

    -------------------

    Control, in a fighting context, is the ability to force the enemy, be it a NPC or another player, to do something they don't want to do that may or may not place them in a bad position.

    Support, in a fighting context, is the ability to buff or empower yourself or allies.

    Damage is simply some potatoes riding a train into a lake. It gets nasty quickly.

    -------------------

    Therefore, translating this into GW2 actuall effects:

    Control: Cripples, Knockdowns, Stuns, Weakness, Knockbacks, Pulls, Dazes, Chills, Fears, Immobilizers and Blinds (this can be argued as support to prevent damage)

    Support: All the Boons, Healing and the special effects (Invulnerability, Stability, Quickness, etc).

    Damage: All the DoT Conditions (Bleeds, Poison, etc), Vulnerability (this can be argued as support to inflict damage), and almost all the skills that inflict damage.
    Last edited by Nemeon Lion; 06-08-2012 at 15:45.

  9. #19
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    very good post, i should start doing what youre doing with vids lol ive gone threw so many its like the only thing that can keep me occupied till release lol other games just dont do it for me anymore.

    but back to the topic, i have to agree that melee has more control over ranged classes. i as a thief found that i was able to close the gap on a range class anytime i wanted, it was very hard for me to even be kited, for instance once i noticed the dude was kiting me id just used shadowstep to him.. ohh hes out of range again some how?? time for steal. now im back on my target again, oh wait hes back out of range guess ill use dancing daggers and weap swap and use infiltrators shot and im back on my target. i can also use stealth to close the gap. and if i notice i wont be able to get them i just LoS them :P

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye Lestrange View Post
    First what's already there:
    1. Melee does more damage. Melee damage is simply higher than ranged damage across the board.
    2. Melee has more control. With a few intentional exceptions, melee has a lot more control than ranged.


    First off, anyone know the exceptions at the top of their head?
    Secondly, the control thing... that is so true. I think that is generally true, even in gw1. Which is why I generally enjoy melee more than I enjoy ranged combat. I mean, guardians have leaps, teleports, blinding, that skill that pulls enemies over. I'm sure all the classes have similar control when in melee range. Any thoughts on that? Would you like/prefer to have the same kind of control options on a ranged character?

    disclaimer: I got the Jon Peters quotes straight off of the guildcast video, which is here
    The exceptions about control and melee, I think are more set oriented. As someone mentioned if you go Greatsword or Axe/Axe on a warrior you get almost no control, but this is countered by the highest damage in the game. If you go Hammer or Mace/(Mace/Shield) you are the absolute master of control with daze, stun, knockdown, pushes ... you name it you got it with those combos. The same holds true for the other classes melee sets or attunements for the elementalist. It is all based on your set selections, but you have far more control on average than any ranged set.

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