Hi all, first post, I thought I'd start off with a bang! Aaha.
This is a repost from various GW2 forums. It's been posted on the official forum, on GW2F, GW2G, and so on. It has also been removed from the official forum multiple times, but now they are allowing it to stay. It reflects much of what many think about the current state of GW2, and compares it to how Arenanet presented the game. I haven't seen it here, but I thought that you guys would think it is an interesting read.
I'm not the original author of this text, the original author is known as Cheiron the Centaur on the official forums. Here goes.
This is a summary of things that bother me about the current state of the game. Although there will probably be quite a few people who look at this differently and see several of the points on this list as ridiculous, it’s the total sum of all these that brought me to post this, hoping that ArenaNet will take this to heart and will take action to solve them.
My apologies for the multiple posts, but I just can’t fit all this into the forum limit of 5000 characters…
Let’s start with a simple one, that I do count as a ‘broken promise’ even if this will surely be fixed over time:
1. “The game will be released when it’s done”. Yet at release date several of the things that were promised and were sometimes even indicated as being ‘top priority’, weren’t “done” (and several of those still aren’t available):
• account security measures (these were only implemented after launch, when the damage was already done)
Martin Kerstein:security is a big, big priority for us.
• measures against botting (still being implemented)We are taking account security very serious and there will definitely be ways to protect your account.
• no guesting (still not available)… which is becoming more and more of a concern now that world transfers are limited to once a week:Discouraging the use of third party programs that exploit the game and negatively impact the experience of others is a top priority for us.
• no rollback functionality for accounts (still not available)When Guild Wars 2 launches, you will also have the option to play with your friends on another world with our free “guesting” feature.
And I won’t even mention spectator mode or ladders for pvp, as ArenaNet has been evasive about when those would be made available from the very start (and I’m not much of a pvp person anyway).
2. Dyes are character bound, not account bound.
In short: a lot more grinding is required (or cash shop purchases) to get all the dyes you want on all characters.
Kristen Perry:And what we do is, as you find sets of dye, you unlock them for your account. So as you unlock dyes for your account, your characters just have them available for them.
3. No dedicated healers, every profession was supposed to be equally viable in all roles, and every profession would be equally welcome in a party.Once you unlock the color, it will be available across your entire account, not just the individual character.
Yet (for example) the guardian (with most of its stills being support/healing based) is so close to a healer that he is always welcome in a party, 90% of his skills are support oriented, whereas a thief or ranger (with much less support options) are often refused from parties and are much harder to spec for support (with far less options). In short: ArenaNet’s implementation of professions failed to make them all truely equal.
4. No need for “LFG” for hours to get into a group. Yet the cities and the lower level zones are filled with people just looking for a group who wants them so that they can play through a dungeon in explorable mode. This is actually a follow-up to the previous point… if all professions would be equally effective at all roles, then nobody would have a reason to refuse people from their party because they are a ranger and not a guardian.
Also, there isn’t enough motivation to play through story mode dungeons with lower level players. A level 35 player wanting to do Ascalonian Catacombs will have to spend a long time looking for a group, because very few groups actually want a level 35 stranger in their party when they do dungeons. There isn’t any kind of reward for the party for playing with lower level players.
5. Ever branching story: with only 1 ending and several knots where branches come together again, these story branches are extremely disappointing. See also the flowchart here.
I would at least have expected different endings if you choose The Vigil, the Durmand Priory or the Order of Whispers.
-> This is just plain misleading. Very few of the branches are only available to one race, most of the branches actually are identical and not race dependent at all.Every race has three branching dynamic stories right off the bat where they can pick from. So, for example, the humans you can pick to be from the city streets, the city nobility, or a commoner, and based on that choice you get a completely different personal story than somebody else. And then within that story, there are more branches that you can make decisions that further branch the story in other directions. So, I can be from the commoner class and you can be from the commoner class and we might experience a different story because of that. And then if you take that and say, all those options are available just for humans, then the other four races all have all these other completely different branching stories you can do as well.
It’s not a branching story, it’s a ‘merging’ storyline… it starts off with a couple of different branches per race, but it quickly merges into one main storyline, with a few very small branches (paths) along the way that quickly merge back into the main story. After the first few levels, what race you took and what options you chose at character creation quickly become irrelevant, and you are all merged back into the one story thread.
6. No grinding dungeons for tokens. Earlier on in the development, PC Gamer spoke to Eric Flannum, and he confirmed:
By now we all know how much grinding is required to get the dungeon pieces.Flannum says “It’s more of a badge system, so this is something that we did in Guild Wars 1 as well. Our basic philosophy is that you should never complete a piece of content and get something you don’t want. So it’s going to be the case where you go through and are guaranteed to get a piece of gear that you didn’t have before, and that you’re going to want.” So, you’re guaranteed to get a piece of gear every time you do a dungeon? “Yes.” Sweet.
In fact, there wasn’t supposed to be any need for grinding at all.
On top of that, there is a severe lack of personal goals once your have reached max level and you have explored all the zones. There aren’t any long-term goals worth going for, other than the dungeon gear (or the legendary gear). So if you don’t want to pvp, all that’s left to do at max level, is the repetitive grind.
Eric Flannum:Most MMOs these days make you grind and do really repetitive, boring content over and over again. There are moments of fun, but then you’re back swinging your sword over and over again, chasing around a moth or an ogre that’s standing around in the world doing nothing. That’s the part of the genre we think players are done with. We want to make something that’s better than that.
and:I think MMOs have two primary stigmas attached to them that non-MMO gamers hear and drives them away. The first one is the ‘grind’, the idea that you’re going to have to do a repetitive task over and over again… we wanted to eliminate that.
Isaiah Cartwright:We don’t want the player to ever have to grind and do something they don’t want to do to progress in the game.
7. No gear treadmill... yet after we reached max stat gear (exotics), ArenaNet first introduced Legendary weapons, now Ascended armor, and in the future Legendary armor… all with better stats. The rare gear (legendaries) was supposed to differ only in skin, not in stats:We expect content—not long, grindy progression—to be the deciding factor that keeps people playing our game. We want everyone to stick with Guild Wars 2 because our content is fun and enjoyable, not out of some dogged determination to slowly, slowly advance.
Mike O’Brien:The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.
8. Zones remaining “relevant”: although the level scaling is a great idea, as it is right now, the game encourages grinding in only 1 zone: Orr. If you’re playing in Orr, you can easily make 6+ gold per hour and you can work on gathering resources that can be used to craft legendary gear. If you’re playing in any other zone in the game, then you can count yourself lucky if your “scaled up” rewards net you 2 gold per day, and you can forget about those legendaries.Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games – we leave the grind to other MMOs.
Which is the main reason why Orr is still full, and most of the other zones are almost empty. There is nothing in those zones to entice players to keep coming back and do the events there again. Meaning that in many zones (even on full servers), a player playing through those zones will never be able to do the group events or take on the champions… because there’s simply no one else around to help out.
So please up the rewards in all other zones in the game and give every single zone something unique and worthwhile, to make it more interesting for max level players to return to every single zone and replay them over and over again.
On top of that, the scaling still doesn’t work too well, making lower level content far too easy if you’re scaled down from level 80 in full gear… even more so if you’re in a group. It doesn’t “remain challenging” as was the intention.
Right now, instead of addressing this problem of replayability, ArenaNet is spending most of its time into making new and higher level content to give players something new to grind for… and if that works, then Orr could soon see a significant drop in population as well.
9. No crafting of throwaway items. As it is, the tradingpost is a joke. Some higher level items are in huge demand and cost a fortune, while the TP is filled with loads of lower/medium level items that nobody wants. Players who want to level up their crafting skills are forced to make a fair amount of throwaway items.
And finally, a few more of my concerns:Our goal with our crafting philosophically is that you’ll never make an item that is a throwaway item. You’ll always be making something that is going to be valuable to someone. Whether it’s for yourself, whether it’s to put on the auction house, whether it’s a consumable that people want, there’s never a time when you’re just making something to increase your skill and then you’re just going to vendor it or chuck it or whatever else you’d do with it afterwards.
• The rates on the trading post and the currency exchange (gems) are ridiculous (15%/36%). Have a look at the rates on auction sites like ebay, as they are much more reasonable.
• Inflation on gem prices is ridiculous. On release date you could buy 100 gems for around 25 silver. Right now you’ll need closer to 90 silver for those same 100 gems. And still very few people actually consider it worthwhile to pay real money for gems to transfer them to gold.
I have been a Guild Wars player for more than 6 years, and have been looking forward to Guild Wars 2 for the past 3. I have hung on every piece of information ever since the first announcement, and have been an active moderator on a GW2 dedicated fansite for the past 2 years. All of this because I have seen (in the original Guild Wars) the great things ArenaNet could do, and I had faith in them.
Unfortunately, with the several broken promises (last of which the recent introduction of a new level of armor stats in the upcoming ascended and legendary gears), that faith is now gone.
And with all the above, this game has simply stopped being ‘fun’ for me. So, although it pains me to be forced to do this, I am going to stop playing until ArenaNet get their act together and get the game back on the right track (if ever).
That's it. I can't say that I agree with him on all points, but he seems to be right about that Arenanet didn't give us what they said they would give us, and many on the official forums seems to agree with him. What do you guys think?
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Thread: Issues with GW2
18-11-2012, 01:39 #1
Issues with GW2
18-11-2012, 03:29 #2
Hi! Welcome to the site :3
I have to admit that I hate it when they go back on their word, like with the dye, but never bothered me enough to stop playing. I'm pretty loyal to ArenaNet. But just like they changed how they felt about the dye, I'm slightly afraid of the path they seem to be taking with respect to gear. Hopefully my fears are unfounded =)
There might be typos.
18-11-2012, 04:08 #3
Thanks Raye and RDarken,
A friend showed me this site a and I have been reading it sometimes, but now I signed up to make this post. I hope I'll make friends here!
I don't think that the new gear is anything to worry about. We have been getting new gear all the time when we were leveling anyway.
18-11-2012, 03:59 #4
Welcome to the site
ANet is kind of funny: For all their "We don't release info until we're ready," they seem to go back on info they've released. As Raye said, so far it hasn't been anything that's made me want to stop playing. I've been having an absolute blast in GW 2 and I still have SO MUCH to do (not even including all the extra content they seem to be pushing out!), so I hope I'll be able to get at least as much time out of it as I did with GW 1 (likely even more).
18-11-2012, 08:28 #5
Welcome, Banjo! I did read that post before and commented on it too. I agree on some points, but not all. Especially not the crafting one.
I did not make a fair amount of useless items when levelling my crafts. In fact, I have used and will use most of the medium armours I have made. The same for weapons. Some people just wanted to level "efficiently", meaning they made the items that cost the least amount of materials and mass-crafted them till they stopped giving XP. In that case, yes, you will make a lot of throw away items.
There was one thing I didn't like about the crafting, and that has a direct link with levels, and that is that you simply cannot keep up with your character, as the levelling is way too fast. I was lvl80 before I even hit the lvl60 areas, which means, I didn't have the materials required to craft an armour/weapon for my character.Lady Rhonwyn (sister of Danea, Katlinel, Gwendydd, and the rest)
Guild leader of GWOnline [GWO]
"Kind of a big mouth", "People Know Me, whether they like it or not", "I'm very vocal", "I wrote many leather bound books", "My Guild Hall is the forum", "Goddess posting amongst mere mortals" (courtesy of Cardinal Cyn)
18-11-2012, 10:36 #6
Welcome Banjo. Seems like you'll fit right in :-)
I offer no loyalty to profit making organisations & don't stint on criticising ANet. That doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the game, but you're post is a good start to what needs fixing...
18-11-2012, 11:37 #7
i think this is kinda nitpicking to much, you can't expect to have everything perfect from the very start and that includes the third part security.
they can't know what ppl use untill they actually do, only after they detect something can they do something about it.
some other points i agree with, i really don't like grind and gear grind is #2 on my list. (lvl grind is #1 but Anet did it pretty decent)
the gem part has nothing to do with Anet, it's all on the players.
if you blame the gem part on Anet then you should do the same about the mats in GW1, ecto's are still 8K+ and don't even talk about the gems(saph,diamond,ruby)
nice list but it needs a bit of reality checking.
18-11-2012, 12:14 #8
Hey and welcome.
I love the game to bits, and have great respect for ANet, but that does not mean that I cannot agree with most of that list.
The thing that has the most practical input on me right now is that guesting is still not in. It is wreaking havoc on WvW and server populations due to bandwagoning - remember the WvW quarantine is also not in yet because it goes together with the guesting (not as much now with the 1-a-week limit, but that limit on the other hand is bad for playing with friends). And it is dividing our guild needlessly (hard to play with members on other servers. And no, not everyone is an exclusive Dii-er and we can hardly demand that either).
In the more long-term I am the most worried about the gear treadmill. Yes it is only a little bit right now, but I would feel so much more comfortable if they in stead had made a second upgrade slot only for infusion that could be added to any armor (maybe by crafting, maybe by paying fractal relics or something), and kept the base stats the same for Ascended armor. Would have so much.. cleaner.
Another worry of mine is the BLTH. Not due to money grabbing per se (it was always comparatively expensive to use ANet's in-game store, but it always seemed worth it to me due to the unlock feature and no monthly fee), but because so many items seem to be designed to be as user-unfriendly as possible. One-time use. Random. Uses storage (which also has to be bought). Character locked. Can't be used in battle (without even having a "automatically switch to town clothes in town" option). One time only holiday clothes (in contrast to GW1's "two for one during limited time" deals). Things like that. This worries me because it makes be doubt ANet's business sense. I have yet to spend a single penny on store skins, not because I am stingy, but because they are implemented in a way that directly discourage purchase - forcing you to weigh limited storage space against a buy that you can only use once. And in that battle, storage always wins! I mean, they already have the rather wonderful HoM mechanic in place, why cannot store bought skins work the same way? Flabbergasting.
Last edited by Lensor; 18-11-2012 at 12:16.IGN Bark N Mad. Officer in The Order of Dii [Dii]
18-11-2012, 12:52 #9
- Isle of Janthir
- The Fuzzy Physics Institute
It's a good think piece, though there are some inaccuracies. The most glaring is in regard to #3: ANet never said that all professions would be equal in all roles. To the contrary, it was quite clear early on that each profession would place more emphasis on some roles and less on others, though each would have some minimal ability in any role. Honestly, anyone who thought, for example, that a warrior or ranger would have healing ability equal to a guardian or elementalist was just not paying attention. ANet has enough sins on its conscience that we don't need to accuse them of those that they never committed.
18-11-2012, 13:49 #10
I have to say that I did craft a lot of useless items. But then again they said that it would be of use to someone, including maybe putting it on the trading post. I can't ever sell anything there but maybe later on.
About the professions I think that he means that some professions can't get a group so easy. Maybe that is true but does it matter? Every profession can solo in this game anyway.
All the other places I have seen this post, people were so upset about all this, but here people seem to not care.