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  1. #1

    Timing of Professions - Ele is a skillful class? Discuss

    In the PvP monthly thread I noted I think eles are the most nuanced, well balanced, and skillful class in all of GW2. I also noted that every character I have is level 80 except a (now) level 32 ele (after gaining a few levels.)

    The disconnect comes from the fact that dual dagger combat happens fast enough that you literally need to practice playing the video game. To be really efficient, you need to be in the right element hitting the right skill immediately. Otherwise you're just using a bunch of skills. There is a flow to d/d, and I feel that I can't get the subconscious timing down without "maining"a dual dagger ele. In the ranger forum a lot of people said they hated using sword/dagger, and it has the except same timing element to it.

    I'm not sure what the discussion I'm getting at is, but I think certain classes almost prevent you from playing other classes. If I were to play ele in hardcore PvP, I think I would effectively stop playing all other classes. When I'm 'in the zone' with my ele I can play above her level. If I've been playing sPvP on a 1-h sword ranger, I die to events in Queensdale on my ele.

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    I think there are a few factors working towards this "nuanced" game play as you called it.
    • Aura builds - With Zephyr's Boon you gain 2 sec on Fury, which is a very small time window without a visual indication (like stealth on the Thief) that you need to hit hard with a certain skill (e.g. Fire Grab)
    • Swapping Attunements - Arcane Fury does apply Fury too, after a swap is the time to hit.
    • Lingering Elements - Many of WoodenPotatoes crit builds (see the Builds thread here on the forums or GWO TV) work with Piercing Shards, doing 20% more damage to vulnerable foes, even if you are in another element now, those 5 seconds of Lingering Elements can provide you with a huge damage boost.
    • channeling Churning Earth - CE channels a few seconds in which you can swap to another attunement /like Water for Piercing Shards effect)
    • Triggering combo fields - I think the Ele is the class that is most aware of using combo fields tactically than others (e.g. the Guardian that usually stands in his own Symbols or a Warrior that gets so many effects just by fields provided by others). Arcane Wave & the Evasive Arcana trait come to mind, when timing is needed. I think only Eles consider "an Arcane Wave use without a fire field - a waste of skill".
    • Glyphs - Our Glyphs don't do the same in the different attunements, so hitting a Glyph of Storms not in Earth or Water often feels like bad timing (applies to the healing Glyph as well, with you should use situational, too)
    • The low armor + low health + situational "pet"- This game mechanic is not forgiving to the Ele as other classes. Necros have huge health pools (e.g. my Ele has not reached the 18k health a Necro gets without any points in Vitality), Mesmers can conjure an arsenal of "decoys" to mitigate attacks & has a 1/3 more health without any Vitality). And they all share the same armor class.
    • Dagger/Dagger range - It does put us into the middle of the danger zone of many attackers + AoE fields you might not even see due to all the particle effects or the terrain (red circles on snow or in shallow water?). You are either aware of the sources of danger or you are downed fast.
    • Dodging for survival - No other class I play needs dodging that much for its survival. I never have problems with the daily dodger achievement, because it comes naturally to me now.


    PS: Ranger and one handed sword - We have a thread about that on the Ranger forum.
    I always think I use the #2 skill to get away from foes more often that the jump back. Must be a habit from playing an Ele.
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  3. #3
    Is it bad to just say "yes; this"? Gorani explained for me.

    Edit: You lose damage on skill 2 ranger sword if you don't jump right back in. It does more dps but only if you use it to evade something. I almost never use it outside of PvP.
    Last edited by Fluffball; 05-04-2013 at 08:14.

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    Eles needs to spec deep into arcana and water since all of the best traits are in these 2 lines imo. 30 arcana will net you the very excellent evasive arcana which gives you 1 spell per attunement per 10 seconds the most useful of which being cleansing wave in water which can be abused to pump out large heals. Also +30% boon duration is amazing with Elemental Attunement. Water has all sorts of useful stuff also culminating in aura share one of the eles best support abilities when coupled with Zephyrs Boon from Air or Powerful Aura in Earth. The other GM choice Cleansing Water is pretty good also.

    Personally I like a 0/10/0/30/30 spread or what is commonly known as a bunker ele.

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    I think all professions have some gameplay that require good execution, but it really stands out when survival depends on it. I notice it more on mesmer, thief, ele...

    Nothing says you're doing it wrong like a dirtnap. Having lower dps is harder to notice.
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    i do notice that the ele is problematic when we're talking about big AOE skills, especially meteor shower.
    it barely hits the enemy and doesn't even knock down, a downgrade to the GW1 version IMO.
    i avoid daggers in general because they require melee and the ele isn't really good for melee survival, at least not as much as the necro when talking about scholars.

    i think that's what the ele needs, a line of better working skills to make up with the lack of defense.
    it's alive but cannot be living, it's dead but lives a mortal life.

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    I'm not an expert at ele, but judging by how dual dagger eles are claimed to be OP by many, including in PvP, I'd tend to think that they are not weak, far from it.

    They may be glass-cannon-y... but I think like mesmer or thief, their defensive abilities are more active than passive. That is, they require more dodging or skill usage to surive, but that's ok because they compensate in other ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    I think all professions have some gameplay that require good execution,..... I notice it more on mesmer, thief, ele...
    Depending on how nit-picky you want to be ... I think I have to disagree e.g for the Ranger. Their special mechanic is slow. The F2 skills activate with a great delay and the only thing you have to do is two swap the pet with F4 once in a while before it dies. The Guardian's Virtues only are of great effect when you play with a party, as you can share it at critical situations with allies. In open world PvE the Virtues are practically "three extra passive Signet effects".
    A messed up attunement swap out of Water or Earth e.g can leave you with a downtime of 10 seconds without access to heals or anti-KD effects you need to survive. Thieves messing up their Initiative pool by hitting a wrong skill once or twice, can be left with using the initiative free skill #1 for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorudo View Post
    i do notice that the ele is problematic when we're talking about big AOE skills, especially meteor shower.
    it barely hits the enemy and doesn't even knock down, a downgrade to the GW1 version IMO.
    i avoid daggers in general because they require melee and the ele isn't really good for melee survival, at least not as much as the necro when talking about scholars.

    i think that's what the ele needs, a line of better working skills to make up with the lack of defense.
    Meteor Shower is not about hitting a single enemy, it is for hitting a snared group, either caught in Frozen Ground or Unsteady Earth, but I am not sure you actually meant that with your post.

    The Ele might still need some tweaks to balance out the available weapons*, but calling it "defenceless" is a bit over the top.

    *) Scepter needs it ground targeted skills (Shatterstone & Dragon's Tooth tweaked, so you can't walk out of it so easily, or perhaps split damage); Focus has so long recharge times (Fire Shield, Freezing Gust & Gale would be my picks); Staff suffers a bit from the "auto attack syndrome" if you do not swap attunements often, but due to the Arcana trait with its larger staff fields it is easy to make it in-balanced. I would not change anything on the Staff at the moment.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorani View Post
    Depending on how nit-picky you want to be ... I think I have to disagree e.g for the Ranger. Their special mechanic is slow. The F2 skills activate with a great delay and the only thing you have to do is two swap the pet with F4 once in a while before it dies.
    The sword/dagger skills are beautifully designed. That makes up for any lack profession mechanics. Although commanding pets in PvP is a hell of a lot of fun. I use the spider and wolf, and a snare and fear at just the right moment will win you a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorani View Post
    I think I have to disagree e.g for the Ranger.
    Why limit yourself to the special mechanic? The skill-based gameplay can be found anywhere, it can be in weapons, in swapping, in optional skills, in dodging/survival, etc.

    You picked a bad first example, given how often the ranger sword is given as example of requiring timing and execution for proper use.

    For guardian, you can trigger virtues to get the effect right away a 2nd time, e.g. get two blocks in a row. Also, good timing can apply to greatsword blind, self-triggering combos, or using shouts at the proper time. To give a few examples.
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