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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Yeah, well...

    That requires you to pretty much implement a way to detect the cause of failure across different kinds of causes (AoE, warriors, etc) and learn how to properly respond to this, while also not changing your behavior in inappropriate ways (i.e. kite so much you don't get any damage done).

    How hard is that to implement in AI? Well, put it this way. Adult humans have a hard time doing it with their fully functional brain.
    I don't think they should actually make this into a learning AI. That will take ages (LOL). They should just have a few pre-set AIs to get the job done. Give the player a sense that the AI is learning, when they isn't.

    For example AoE->spread out. Warrior->kiting. The AI do not need to learn what is AoE and what is Warrior. Neither does the AI need to learn how to spread out and how to kite. Anet can just program them to know so and act accordingly.

    That said, it will be awesome if they can have some low level AI. For example mobs would naturally move to high grounds during a fight. Mobs would naturally hide behind walls to avoid an attack. etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnoughAlready View Post
    Anyone else played the total war series?
    I did. Loved that game. Here is one of my proudest victories. I had so many useless units (siege units and Eastern Infantries) but I still won. ^^

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...3-31-57-07.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0-12-53-70.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0-12-48-76.jpg

    Anyways I was in Nageling earlier, where Separatists had taken over. They marched in perfect formation. So I believe the game engine allows for the things I recommended.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Wars/gw505.jpg
    Last edited by CHIPS; 30-11-2012 at 07:01.

  2. #42
    Combine tactical AI with siege warfare, there are all of these forts everywhere after all, & instructions for siege engines. That would be something for Alliance battles!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIPS View Post
    Give the player a sense that the AI is learning, when they isn't.
    Or... randomize the AI, so different foes act differently, and you don't know who will kite and who won't in advance. That gives the illusion that they have personality (and they die too fast anyway for learning to be relevant or noticeable).

    Don't go trademark that idea though, I am already implementing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnoughAlready View Post
    Combine tactical AI with siege warfare, there are all of these forts everywhere after all, & instructions for siege engines. That would be something for Alliance battles!
    WvW
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIPS View Post
    I heard the dungeons of Skyrim isn't bad.
    you are pretty much on your own in skyrim and followers are useless in dungeons anyway, they are fun but if you want this in GW2 then they can better be solo dungeons. (not that i object to that mind you)
    it's alive but cannot be living, it's dead but lives a mortal life.

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnoughAlready View Post
    Combine tactical AI with siege warfare, there are all of these forts everywhere after all, & instructions for siege engines. That would be something for Alliance battles!
    To replicate a real siege, the town gates need to be closed during a siege. As of right now, most town doors stays open and just let mobs pour in. That's not how siege works. The siege-ing side needs to have siege equipment, like siege ladders and catapults. With that, the siege would look more realistic.

    1) Defenders closes the gate to prevent mobs from pouring in. The players can exit the fort by other means (jump out from a spot on the wall, underground tunnels, etc).
    2) Mobs rush the walls and uses siege ladders to scale the walls.
    3) Defenders and reinforcements can counter the siege by attacking the mobs from their back.

    Or

    1) Defenders closes the gate to prevent mobs from pouring in. The players can exit the fort by other means (jump out from a spot on the wall, underground tunnels, etc).
    2) Mobs uses siege weapons like catapults to destroy the gate or the wall. Once an opening is created, all the mobs would pour in at once (not one wave after another).
    3) Defenders and reinforcements can sneak outside and destroy those siege weapons. If successful, the siege would be lifted and the mobs would retreat.

    Here is an example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joQ73cM2KHg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8xqvyTZlWA

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaris View Post
    Or... randomize the AI, so different foes act differently, and you don't know who will kite and who won't in advance. That gives the illusion that they have personality (and they die too fast anyway for learning to be relevant or noticeable).

    Don't go trademark that idea though, I am already implementing it.



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    Last edited by CHIPS; 30-11-2012 at 21:06.

  6. #46
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    I like those ideas Chips.

    The PvE foes doing the siege sometimes do have catapults, and the associated event is to destroy them.

    I like how in WvW there's a teleport door so you can move in and out freely but foes can't. Likewise, you could have foes capturing a fort and putting up doors to lock you out, provided that you can more easily retake forts in small teams than in WvW... for example, with NPC's setting up mortars etc to help you out, so you can defend those enough to retake the fort.
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  7. #47
    Some events do start with closed gates but mobs usually break them down quickly.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabidCoqui View Post
    Some events do start with closed gates but mobs usually break them down quickly.
    Because there is no way to actually defend the gates from up on the wall (archers, boiling oil), no firing slits in and near the gate, and no way to defend the approach to the gates. GW2 fortresses mostly seem to be designed and staffed by morons.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    Because there is no way to actually defend the gates from up on the wall (archers, boiling oil), no firing slits in and near the gate, and no way to defend the approach to the gates. GW2 fortresses mostly seem to be designed and staffed by morons.
    There are a few forts where you can stand on top of the wall to defend. For example the fort in Crossroads Haven.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Wars/gw708.jpg

    But of course, melee mobs under the wall are invincible due to height difference and hence that was useless. Heck I remember there was this siege mission in an open area, where the only protection for the players are a few piles of rock. The mobs were dumb and cannot jump, so they couldn't get on top. 2 seconds later, guess what? Invincible!

    In Roman times simple wooden walls (e.g. you cannot get on top of it) on a mount/hill works because archers can shoot in an arc and hit the enemies on the other side. In GW2 it doesn't work b/c bows are shot in a straight line. And so, like you said, simple wooden walls are useless since you cannot attack mobs on the other side of the wall. All the wall does is slightly delay the enemy from entering the gate, while the players can only sit in the middle of the town and wait for the onslaught.

    In fact, assuming that the enemies are attacking from all sides, the defenders are trap in there due to the wall. They cannot even retreat safely like guerrillas do.

    So yes. Most of the forts and town walls are poorly designed. Although there are a few that's pretty good. Most of them are in Norn land.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Wars/gw730.jpg

    I think clever map designs and tactics goes a long way. Instead of trying to attract the WoW crowd to increase the player base, why not try to attract strategy gamers though map design and tactics?
    Last edited by CHIPS; 01-12-2012 at 19:15.

  10. #50
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    I hasn't given an example of what I envision a world event to be. So I spend an hour to make one! :D

    I planned a centaur attack on Ascalon Settlement. I am going to guess that around 400 players from each server/zone would participate.

    Keep in mind that centaurs in the game are fairly weak units. My necro can kill 10 of them by herself. So I will give the centaurs 1,000 men. So how can these weak units win against the powerful humans?

    Here is my battle plan.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rranFields.jpg

    At the beginning there will be three main battle zones: Left, centre and right.

    Humans will spread out their ranks in an unknown formation and unknown numbers across each zone. However for this demonstration I would assume 100 humans on the left, 200 humans in the centre, and 100 humans on the right.

    The centaurs separated their 1,000 men into 4 groups: 200 on the left, 200 in the centre, 300 on the right, and 300 elite troops in reserve at the back.

    The battle follows a series of steps and plans:

    1) The beginning would be a series of small skirmishes along the human ranks from all 3 zones. The centaurs' forces in centre zone and right zone are used to delay the humans, keep the humans busy and hold the humans there. So their attacks are fairly easy to dealt with. In fact the centaurs there will try to preserve their forces until later.

    2) The main attack begins on the left zone. In the heat and chaos of the battle, the centaurs would suddenly rush the 3 elite units from the back to help the attack on the left zone. The combined might of nearly 200 regular and 300 elite centaurs should be able to overwhelm the 100 human defenders.

    3) The battle moves on quickly after that. The centaurs, instead of attacking Nebo Terrance, swings around south of the town and attacks the centre zone humans from behind. The surprise factor and sandwich effect of this flanking maneuver should crush the humans.

    4) The centaurs would leave a small force at the west gate of Ascalon Settlement to guard it (not attack). The main body however moves south-east to take over the southern hills of the town. The dead humans, now resurrected from a nearby Asuran gate, makes a stand there. I don't really expect the centaurs to win this battle here. They probably lost most of their men by this point. But assuming that they did...

    5) The centaurs leaves a small force to guard the southern gate of the town. The rest would move north to attack the south side of the humans in the right zone. Once again the humans are sandwiched.

    6) If the centaurs wins, they moves to the northern heights and eastern heights to besiege the town with siege weapons. The centaurs, unfamiliar with siege warfare, decided not to attack the town walls directly but instead hopes to starve the town into submission. By this point, all exits in and out of Ascalon Settlement are blocked off by centaurs, so no supply can enter.

    7) The players have 2 days to organize themselves and fight off the centaurs, or Ascalon Settlements will be destroyed and looted.

    As you can see, even with all these planning, it will be tough for the centaurs to win. Like I said step #4 will most likely be a human victory. But the centaur gave the humans a semi-beat down.
    Last edited by CHIPS; 03-12-2012 at 22:48.

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