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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rhonwyn View Post
    Cats are special in that they will hunt when they're not hungry. (...)

    No rewards at all? I might like it...
    I thought ferrets were the main animals who kill for sport (aside for humans). Cats too? Well, my cats were fat, so maybe there's a sample bias here,

    As for no rewards, I'll probably chicken out and make my game with rewards, but the philosophical implications are interesting. I certainly enjoy playing some games more (not less) once I no longer have to worry about unlocking stuff.
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  2. #42
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    Maybe if there was a bonus (exp/karma/loot) and/or achievement to "clean up" in zones that have been over-run with mobs and/or events that have been stuck in a state for X time? Like a "Savior of the Land" deal.

    Which in turn could turn the PvE folk into locust that went from underplayed zone to underplayed zone zerging it, but could also be fun. Imagine getting a guild group together and play the hell out of some seldom-visited zone for great loot and laughs. Or course, would not really help new characters to play through their stories normally (could have underflow servers for that maybe?), but still.
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  3. #43
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    Perhaps the best option would be to build on the overflow server design.
    Have dynamic servers, when one is full, begin putting players in the next.
    If people wanting to play together end up on different servers then the one from the most full can down shift to the less full.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Troy View Post
    Translation: Cats have a natural curiosity that is environment driven, and are easily persuaded to follow that curiosity for no obvious reward.
    Not my cat. She's a one cat mass extinction event. Regularly brings back birds, rats, snakes... other animals :-/
    A neighbour got a chihuahua, small annoying yapping thing. It went running barking at her, she left bits of it all over the garden.
    She's smart as well, and watches, watches & learns. Silent, fast, strong & smart.
    When she'd figured out how to open the big wooden toggle latch on another neighbours children's rabbit hutch... it was gruesome. Worst part was they kept buying the kids more rabbits & guinea pigs to replace the ones before.
    Then a new couple moved in & built an aviary... just don't ask.
    Every few months there'd be another 'have you seen this pet' poster go up, and I'd think, yes, yes I have... or at least bits of it.
    Last edited by EnoughAlready; 07-12-2012 at 16:32.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by EnoughAlready View Post
    A neighbour got a chihuahua, small annoying yapping thing. It went running barking at her, she left bits of it all over the garden.
    Your cat ate a chihuahua? That's hysterical (because it wasn't my dog.)

  5. #45
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    Yes... Well, bits of it. She just played with the rest.
    Last edited by EnoughAlready; 07-12-2012 at 17:19.

  6. #46
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    Ferrets kill for sport? Hah! Not if there's a nice, restful hammock in the vicinity, or shinies to haul off to their stash, or tunnels to run around in. Actually, ferrets imprint strongly on their food at a very young age, so it is almost impossible to get a domestic ferret to take up hunting unless they're raised for it. If a manufacturer of a commercial food even makes a small change in ingredients, ferrets imprinted on that food may stop eating entirely because they no longer recognize it as edible.

    Game with no rewards, eh? Well, I came to GW1 after Uru (Myst Online) folded as a commercial venture for the second time. Most of you have never heard of Uru, I suspect, but it actually fits Alaris's question and lets us look at a real example instead of just theorycrafting about the possibility. (It actually still exists in a sort of life-support limbo, and you can still give it a try if you want to see it in operation and imagine what it was like in its all-too-brief glory days.)

    Uru is an MMORPG that has no armor, weapons, combat, crafting, minigames, or any of the other features we associate with the genre. Your character can't die or kill, and there is no PvP element at all. There are persistant instanced areas owned by the player, but you can invite as many other players as you like to share your instances, so it has a more open-world feel. The only tangible rewards it offers are bits of clothing found laying around different maps as you explore and some collectable decorations for your private home area. The gameplay is pure puzzle-solving adventure story, much like single-player adventure games, coupled with dramatic content provided by interacting with "NPCs" who were played by employees of the developers in real time.

    So what happened to bring about its demise? The debate among True Fans -- who are as fanatical about Uru as any Trekkie/Trekker is about ST -- goes on to this very day, but the major elements are:

    1. The game never attracted an audience of viable size. I don't believe the number of players ever broke (or even bent) 100,000. This is, of course, laughable in terms of keeping the support of a publisher.

    2. The format of the game simply demands a constant stream of new content, since there is not a heck of a lot to do between content releases and rare "NPC" visits except use the environment as a glorified chat room, which is not appealing to the average MMO player. However, a small studio like Cyan Worlds could never afford to produce content at the necessary rate to keep the game fresh. In fact, I doubt that even a studio like ANet or Blizzard could do so, even if they had $200 million to sink into the project. Certainly a revenue based on a $15 monthly subscription fee and 100k players would not support the necessary development even if every penny went to the studio. Thus, there was a problem in player retention except among the tiny core of True Believers.

    Could such a format ever be successful? Perhaps, but it would need some changes such as the addition of a game economy and gathering/crafting. It would also likely need a publisher with the patience to let the game find its audience instead of ditching it if it doesn't have 2 million subscribers on day one. Most of the audience for a game of this type is just not going to be found among the ranks of traditional MMO players, and it would take time and creative marketing to reach out to other potential players.
    Last edited by BrettM; 07-12-2012 at 18:28.

  7. #47
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    Game with no rewards?
    You mean Eve online?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    Ferrets kill for sport? Hah! Not if there's a nice, restful hammock in the vicinity, or shinies to haul off to their stash, or tunnels to run around in. Actually, ferrets imprint strongly on their food at a very young age, so it is almost impossible to get a domestic ferret to take up hunting unless they're raised for it. If a manufacturer of a commercial food even makes a small change in ingredients, ferrets imprinted on that food may stop eating entirely because they no longer recognize it as edible.

    Game with no rewards, eh? Well, I came to GW1 after Uru (Myst Online) folded as a commercial venture for the second time. Most of you have never heard of Uru, I suspect, but it actually fits Alaris's question and lets us look at a real example instead of just theorycrafting about the possibility. (It actually still exists in a sort of life-support limbo, and you can still give it a try if you want to see it in operation and imagine what it was like in its all-too-brief glory days.)

    Uru is an MMORPG that has no armor, weapons, combat, crafting, minigames, or any of the other features we associate with the genre. Your character can't die or kill, and there is no PvP element at all. There are persistant instanced areas owned by the player, but you can invite as many other players as you like to share your instances, so it has a more open-world feel. The only tangible rewards it offers are bits of clothing found laying around different maps as you explore and some collectable decorations for your private home area. The gameplay is pure puzzle-solving adventure story, much like single-player adventure games, coupled with dramatic content provided by interacting with "NPCs" who were played by employees of the developers in real time.

    So what happened to bring about its demise? The debate among True Fans -- who are as fanatical about Uru as any Trekkie/Trekker is about ST -- goes on to this very day, but the major elements are:

    1. The game never attracted an audience of viable size. I don't believe the number of players ever broke (or even bent) 100,000. This is, of course, laughable in terms of keeping the support of a publisher.

    2. The format of the game simply demands a constant stream of new content, since there is not a heck of a lot to do between content releases and rare "NPC" visits except use the environment as a glorified chat room, which is not appealing to the average MMO player. However, a small studio like Cyan Worlds could never afford to produce content at the necessary rate to keep the game fresh. In fact, I doubt that even a studio like ANet or Blizzard could do so, even if they had $200 million to sink into the project. Certainly a revenue based on a $15 monthly subscription fee and 100k players would not support the necessary development even if every penny went to the studio. Thus, there was a problem in player retention except among the tiny core of True Believers.

    Could such a format ever be successful? Perhaps, but it would need some changes such as the addition of a game economy and gathering/crafting. It would also likely need a publisher with the patience to let the game find its audience instead of ditching it if it doesn't have 2 million subscribers on day one. Most of the audience for a game of this type is just not going to be found among the ranks of traditional MMO players, and it would take time and creative marketing to reach out to other potential players.
    This model only works if the players are allowed to design game contents themselves. Else the development cost would be simply too high. Big Gamer Hunger for Starcraft I and DOTA for Warcraft 3 are good examples.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHIPS View Post
    Yeah no one ever does Ash Horizon. But I found a trick to solo it. You see that cliff just north of Ocean's Gullet? If you jump into the water around there, there is a sweet spot where there isn't any risen that you can shoot down the Gullet at range.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File...ly_Fen_map.jpg
    I don't have a problem finding people to do the Sparkfly Fen one. But even if I did, it's marked as a group event so I wouldn't be surprised to be unable to complete it alone.

    The one in Straits of Devastation is the hopeless one.

    (and after reading the rest of the thread)

    I liked parts of Uru. Other parts... oof. Kicking crates into the water so I could walk across with the fireflies. Jumping onto platforms in the... I forget the exact spelling but it's an alteration of "garrison"... only to miss, and have a very long loading screen wait. And a serious lack of things to do.
    Last edited by nkuvu; 07-12-2012 at 19:45.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    Ferrets kill for sport? Hah!
    In nature... Domestic anything can develop weird behaviour...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrettM View Post
    Uru is an MMORPG that has no armor, weapons, combat, crafting, minigames, (...) The gameplay is pure puzzle-solving adventure story
    Well, the design would have to make the game replayable, and puzzles are often not replayable (exceptions include Tetris and similar games). But it sounds like the content was just too costly to create at a rate necessary for success.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnoughAlready View Post
    Game with no rewards? You mean Eve online?
    I'd assume the economy is its own reward.

    Quote Originally Posted by CHIPS View Post
    Starcraft I and DOTA for Warcraft 3 are good examples.
    Nice.
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